Tue 16 Nov 2004
My friend, Rob, who started a blog about making Christ known on the Internet, pointed out a good article in the Orlando Sentinel, “Connecting through e-vangelism” about what Tom and I are working on here in Eastern Europe. The two people mentioned in the article have been inspirations for Tom and I as we help our staff here in Eastern Europe develop similar sites for students here.
A free subscription is required in order to read the article.
Here’s an excerpt:
By Carol Scott | Sentinel Staff Writer
Posted November 14, 2004
“To spread the gospel, evangelical Christians are using Web sites such as everystudent.com, run from the home of an Orlando woman for the Campus Crusade for Christ. It’s an effective high-tech link.
The girl’s plea for help didn’t make a sound.
Instead, it popped up silently in Marilyn Adamson’s e-mail in-box.
It’s not that I don’t believe in God, because I do, and I want to believe in the stories . . . I think I need God, but I don’t know how to find him. Can you help me? Wrestling with drug addiction, alcoholism and fears about a recent abortion, the 18-year-old reached out to Adamson’s Web site, EveryStudent.com, in January, asking for spiritual guidance. She had never gone to church or read the Bible, she said. She had gone online to search for answers from the anonymity of her home computer.
Adamson was ready to help. …”
November 17th, 2004 at 5:38 am
Isnt the New Testament about Our Father Jehovah? And not really about Jesus. Sure Christianity developed around Jesus. But wasnt the early church worshipping His Father Jehovah? I have alot of trouble thinking Jesus would call His Father “God”. And Jesus did say we have to go thru him to get to his father. Because that is what His Father has been saying all along…. Since the beginning. I challenge you to say one of Jesus’s Father’s names when you see that three letter word God…written in scripture. Christianity is about personality and friendship and family and family values. I think our comfortableness with the word GOD comes from fear of being associated with the JWs…the Jehovah Witnesses. We are JWs…we are witnesses to Jesus…and His Father…Jehovah. If you want to add some spice to your evangelism…talk about Jesus’s Father. Jesus sits at His Right Hand. So we know Jesus is not Our Father. He is our brother. If we do the will of Our Father, then Jesus claims us as brother and sister. We are kids of the kingdom.
November 17th, 2004 at 11:16 am
That’s an interesting perspective. I had always thought the New Testament was about Jesus. The first four books are about him, and the bulk of the rest of it deals with what it means to have a relationship with Jesus.
Sure, God is mentioned there, too, but as part of the same being as Jesus. I know a lot of people don’t buy into the concept of the Trinity, and I can understand how it doesn’t fit easily into our human experience. It’s quite a non-linear, non-Western type concept. (That’s pretty ironic, given how much of Western culture is based on a belief in a Triune God.)
So, if Jesus is not the point, then what is?
If finding peace with God is not through Jesus Christ, then how do you propose we find it?
Let me head you off at the pass, though. Before you suggest another system of good works let me tell you I don’t buy that route. If that is, indeed, the way to find peace with God, then I have a lot of self-centered living to catch up on. That is, I have no delusions of my own goodness, and instead I see my own internal corruption. I have no hope if it’s up to my good works. Therefore, I’d rather just give up the doomed effort and at least enjoy the temporary satisfaction of living completely for myself.
Enlighten me.
November 18th, 2004 at 1:03 am
I did a word search for the word, FATHER, in the new testament via http://www.bible.com. Just in John alone there are many references given from Jesus speaking about his father. The Jesus Prayer…is about his father. Almost in every case, Jesus refers to his father as his source for everything he is, for everything he represents, for everything he says. Sure there are verses about earthly fathers. But without any great study the reader can devide the ones which Jesus is speaking about his father quite easily.
John 12:49 – For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. :50 – And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
There is no doubt that the way to Our Father is thru Jesus. It is not of works. Tho it is of works…doing his will. A christian sitting on his hands isnt demonstrating the power of Jehovah within him. Works alone doesnt make it. Works designated as His Will…will get you kinship with Jesus.
Jesus speaking about his father is written all thru the gospels…and all thru John’s Gospel. Jesus would not want the honor and glory for himself, for he knows that the honor is meant for his father. Abba…our Daddy!
John 14:13 – And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
John 14:16 – And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
The other comforter is The Holy Spirit. Jesus’s spirit. So, is the New Testament about The Holy Spirit? Some would say yes. I contend the NT is about Our Father. The Great Provider. The one who wants us to be in his family. The Old Testament is about Our Father.
In the beginning, it was clouds in the sky…rumbling thunder…strange lights. Then the burning bush…then the tabernacle…God in a Box. Finally The Creator is born into a human being. And that human being has a one on one personal relationship with his creator Father. The new testament is also called the new covenant. Or the next covenant, or the last covenant. The messiah. Jesus the Messiah. The one who will show us the way to the creator.
Do you want to lead students to The Father? Yes…thru Jesus. If you want new zing in your student witnessing, strike that three letter word GOD from your vocabulary. Dont write it dont say it. If you are at a loss for words, say your father, my father…for HE IS YOUR FATHER. He is not your God/god. You are doing His Will? Yes? then Jesus is your brother and His Father is Your Father.
Matthew 12:50 – For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother, and sister, and mother.”
Mark 3:35 – Whoever does the will of God is my brother, and sister, and mother.”
Luke 8:21 – But he said to them, “My mother and my brothers are those who hear the word of God and do it.”
The word GOD, is generic. It lacks personality. It is undefinable. It is pleasing to everyone’s ear. It is universal. It is catholic. It is a cover word, for those believers who couldnt write the real name of the creator. So it was continued thru translations. The translators couldnt write the name of the creator on paper. They couldnt even say his name out loud. We can because we believe Jesus set us free from church law. He didnt set us free from government law. Just from the unending laws that the church and synagogues devised to keep us on the right road. Jesus reduced them all to one. Love you neighbor as yourself.
The muslims do not believe that their God can be your friend. Their idea of God is one who punishes and judges and causes his servants to fear him…literally be afraid of God. Our definition of fear is respect…as one would respect their father. We christians can go into the same room with Our Father, because He is our DAD!!!! Fathers and sons do stuff together. They have fun together. Joke around. Laugh. Those experiences are included with being a christian.
November 18th, 2004 at 12:23 pm
I don’t think you are going to convince me to stop following Jesus and relying on my Father’s grace, and I don’t think I’m going to convince you to stop trying to work your way to heaven by doing the Father’s will. But for anyone else reading this who might be interested in the difference between the beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses and what most followers of Jesus believe about him, I’ll continue.
Yes, it’s true, Jesus used language many times that associated doing good works with those belonging to the kingdom of heaven. If you take individual statements of his and form a belief system around them, you might arrive at the conclusion that good works can achieve peace with God. But if you read the entirety of what he said, you would arrive at a different conclusion. When you do so, other individual comments that Jesus made are more typical of what his message was. For example, “I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.” (John 5:24) Here Jesus says belief is the key ingredient to finding peace with God, not doing good works.
Secondly, Jesus must be of the *same essence* as God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. If not, then all Christian thought reduces to a system of good works and religion. Rather than following God himself in the form of man, we would be following another man. And then the beliefs of the Jehovah’s Witnesses would be a logical conclusion; worship Jehovah, not anyone less. But then that wouldn’t be Christianity, and it would not be consistent at all with what Jesus said about himself. Close, but not really the same at all. Thus the term “cult” is applied to Jehovah’s Witnesses. Muslims respect Jesus as a prophet, but they are certainly not Christian. Neither are Jehovah’s Witnesses. Any group that denies that Jesus is of the *same essense* as God is not Christian, because Jesus claimed he was. Jesus also said, “that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.” (John 5:23)
On the one hand, I wish I could dispatch your arguments neatly in this blog comment. On the other hand, I’m glad I can’t. Life is very complex, and I think God is complex. I am perfectly comfortable believing that our universe contains a being whose nature is beyond my ability to comprehend. People have been thinking about these issues for several thousand years now. Most people who study the life of Jesus Christ conclude that he was either God or a nutcase. Some conclude, as you have, that he was a special person but not God. I don’t think that’s a valid option. Either embrace Jesus or dismiss him entirely. Anything in between doesn’t make sense.
Here are some other articles if you’re interested in reading further.
http://hertzlers.com/jerry-story1.htm – my personal experience with the person of Jesus Christ.
http://www.greatcom.org/resources/jesus_and_his_diety/chap01/default.htm – an online book discussing the diety of Jesus
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060652926/102-1729931-6459341?v=glance – Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis. You can read some of it online here at Amazon.
http://everystudent.com/wires/whodoyousay.html – another article on whether Jesus claimed to be God or not.
November 18th, 2004 at 12:29 pm
Sorry about those long links.
Here are the same links, only shorter.
Amazon link to Mere Christianity – http://tinyurl.com/3vsqe
Link to online book at Greatcom.com – http://tinyurl.com/62s6s
The two others looked short enough to fit on the page.
November 18th, 2004 at 6:20 pm
This discussion isnt about good works. It isnt about, Is Jesus God. Its about: What is the point of the New Testament. The Gospels dwell on Jesus’s relationship with his father. His Heavenly Father. The book of Acts tells us about The Holy Spirit, A spiritual being who is here now to help us, guide us, counsel us, teach us how to get to know Our New Father. When we are born again, we get a new father. Our past is wiped away. We start fresh. We get new powers…spiritual gifts. We have the ability to even acquire more gifts. Romans is about our struggle with our new nature. Jesus was born with his new nature already with him. We get our new nature sometime later, then we grow into it. We get our new nature when we surrender to Jesus. Our new father knew it was difficult to have communication with us. So, thru one of our own peoples, he made his presence known. We only believe Jesus because of Hindsight. If you were with him when he was walking around as a jew, you probably wouldnt have believed. He had to demonstrate his spiritual status and even then some didnt believe. It took his ressurrection to knock people across the head with the proverbial two by four for them to listen. His desciples didnt understand. In the garden, he told them to pray…instead they fell asleep. And he couldnt tell them everything, because they would try and stop him. The new testament is our manual to get to know our father. Jesus’s Father. Thats what it is all about. You are stuck on “Is Jesus God?” He is The Creator’s Son. Father like Son. You squarejer are The Creator’s Son. You are half Supreme Being and half Human Being. You body will die, and your spirit will be ressurrected. You have the same abilities as Jesus. You have the mind of CHRIST. You struggle with the Holy Spirit. Who is the Holy Spirit? He is Jesus’s Spirit. As if Jesus were here, the Holy Spirit is here. And why is he here…so we can get to know our FATHER. Jehovah sent Jesus to tell us about how loving his father is. And we are to tell the world how wonderful our father is to have created us. The old testament tells how wonderful our father is. The new testament tells us how to meet our father and accept him and understand him and be his child. Its a manual about getting to know your eternal spiritual heretoday father. When you call your father GOD, then you are negating the whole process. Its not God’s Hands who support you. Its your father’s arms that surround you.
In an earlier post you said your teams gathered to discuss new ways to present Jesus to the students. Lots of kids have fathers they dont understand. Lots of kids dont even have fathers because of war deaths, and devorce, and just from generation gaps. And here now is a Father who has been reaching out to his children for centuries. Thats the point of the new testament. It isnt about Jesus Jesus Jesus. It is about HIS FATHER !!!
November 19th, 2004 at 5:15 pm
Joining this a little late…
Once I heard someone describe the Bible as a 5 Chapter book.
Chapter 1: “Preparing for Jesus” (the OT)
Chpater 2: “Jesus is Here” (the gospels)
Chapter 3: “Jesus Goes Up, Spirit Comes Down” (Acts)
Chapter 4: “How to Live in Light of Jesus” (Epistles)
Chapter 5: “Jesus Returns” (Revelation)
I still look at the Bible that way.
November 19th, 2004 at 5:27 pm
Rob. I wish I had your brevity!
Battrick, I don’t have Rob’s brevity, so here’s my long reply.
(Next time I’ll keep Rob’s style in mind!)
OK. We can discuss the point of the New Testament. It was written about Jesus Christ, no? He had just changed mankind’s perspective on who the Father was, and several people wanted to write about it. He had just made it clear how to establish peace with our Father. It was by believing in him.
Why was Jesus’ life anything special in relation to man’s guilt and our relationship to the Father? Because he provided a way to remove the guilt that separated us from our Father. His death was a substitute for our death. He died both physically and spiritually so we would not die spiritually. He satisfied the justice of our Father.
Could this have been possible if Jesus was solely a man? I don’t know. Maybe the Father, in his wisdom, knows the answer to that question.
Was Jesus solely a man? The answer to this question IS a large part of the whole point of the New Testament. To ignore it is to ignore the point of the New Testament. That’s why I keep coming back to it, because I believe that is the point of the New Testament; the person of Jesus Christ.
Jesus was very clear that he did not believe himself to be merely a man. The Jews understood very clearly that Jesus did not consider himself to be merely a man. That’s why they killed him.
Jesus said in John 5:19, “I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. 20For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, to your amazement he will show him even greater things than these. 21For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.”
How someone could read those words and not conclude that Jesus considered himself God, I don’t know. The Jews certainly arrived at that conclusion. How can someone be shown all that God does without being God? How can someone do all that God does without being God?
The Jews understood him clearly. They said, “he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.” (John 5:18) And they arrived at this conclusion before Jesus had finished talking about the subject at that time!
Why do the Jehovah’s Witnesses say, “Jesus was not of the same essence as the Father”?
And why do Jehovah’s Witnesses say that peace with God is established by doing the “will of the Father” (by which statement they don’t mean faith) when Jesus said, “Believe on me.”?
I disagree with you. The point of the Old Testament and the New Testament is Jesus Christ. On a broader scale, I think it is the story of our Father redeeming his creation through his grace. And that grace is ours through faith in Jesus Christ.
Changing the subject a bit. I am genuinely curious to know what you believe “doing the will of the Father” involves. (I’m not baiting you, don’t worry.) Is there a point at which you have “done” them? Or do you just keep trying until you die and hope for the best? Is there any way to gauge how you’re doing? How do you deal with failure? How do you deal with your ever-present guilt? How is the Father’s sense of justice satisfied with works that the prophets in the Old Testament called “filthy rags?”
November 20th, 2004 at 6:54 am
You asked alot of questions. I tried to follow your outline. There is no question in my mind and heart: Jesus is my Lord and Saviour.
I believe Jesus was ninety nine percent human man and one percent spiritual man, son of our Father Jehovah. I was reading today in Judaism 101, that no one really knows from a scholarly viewpoint what name was used for Our Father The Creator. Everyone abbreviated his name. They could not say it or write it down. He is Jesus’s Dad. We could just call him Dad, and be right on. It says in Corinthians, that He confronted the same problems we are having problems with right now. To tell us we can have victory over what ever we choose to have victory. He would have had to be total human man to understand what I feel about being a man. He was restricted on his Creator Side. Changing water into wine was his first public miracle. What was he doing in private? It must take practice to turn water into wine. To get the perfect flavor the first time would have to be a miracle.
He said He was His Father’s Son. He said He looked like his Dad, and his Dad looked like him. Is that so strange??????
Maybe his Dad was a billion times taller, and still had the same facial features. Hair style. No one really knows what he looked like.
Just to let you know…when you are born again. You become a new creature. You are no longer human. You might think you are one percent God and ninetynine percent human. But you are probably one percent human and ninetynine percent God’s Son. You even have a new name. Something I havent figuired out yet. You get a package of gifts when you are born again. One of those gifts is direct access to the Holy Spirit. Its a given. What ever your hearts desire, He will give it to you. Jesus is generally our hearts desire. And Jesus will give you His Father. Know Jesus and you will know His Father.
The New Testament was written about Jesus, by His Father.
Sure several people did good works inorder for that to happen.
People wrote down on “paper” what they remembered, and what
Our Father directed them to write. They made mistakes. They
were only human. Paul was out there doing good works. Never for a moment thinking his letters would end up in the new testament.
Other people got together and arranged the writings into some
kind of order directed by Jesus’s Father.
I believe Jesus spoke the words His Father spoke. Everything Jesus said had already been said milliseconds before by His Father. Well, ninety nine percent. The other part was from his one percent humaness.
The reason he was killed was because of the orchestration of the
Pharisees. And because Jesus’s Father wanted it to happen. Jesus
wasnt always so sure it was the right thing to do. But he pressed
on with his good work. And at the end, even Jesus questioned authority.
His death signified the end of sacrifices for sin. No more would killing a lamb suffice for the shed blood to cover the sins of the past year. The last lamb was killed…Jesus. His blood was shed for everyone. Past Present Future. Sin stopped existing on that day.
Sin is nothing without sacrifice.
If you didnt know about Jesus and His Father’s Grand plan, then
one might think sin could still reigned in ones mind. Believing
that Jesus died for our sin, releases us to live the good life
we know in our heart of hearts is right.
The bible is full of examples of how we can do good works once
we believe Jesus died for us individually and collectively to
set us free from the rules of sin. Love your neighbor as yourself.
Help the afflicted. Help the widow. Love your mother and father.
Give your children good gifts and not stones. Its all about good
works. Bad works are like lying about stuff. Stealing stuff. Its
easy to devide the good from the bad when you have Jesus and the Bible as your standard. You just know in your heart what is right and good and beneficial. Proverbs is full of examples. Jesus set many examples. The Samaritan helped a traveler. Usually helping means extending yourself beyond your comfort zone. And if it makes you angry in the process, you can be sure you are doing a good work. I just hope you realize it, and not stay angry.
“The point of the Old Testament and the New Testament is Jesus Christ. On a broader scale, I think it is the story of our Father redeeming his creation through his grace. And that grace is ours through faith in Jesus Christ.”
What does that mean? Is that evangelical talk? redeeming his creation…what isnt his creation? through his grace? Do your students even know what that means? Faith is believeing in the unbelievable as though it is happening now. Not that it will happen later. but that it has already happened now.
The old testament is about our Father’s many attempts to get our attention, that he loves us and that he wants to give us all our hearts desires.
The new testament is about our Father’s last attempt to get our attention that is loves us and that he wants to give us all our hearts desires.
The Holy Spirit tells me to do things. Sometimes I do them and recieve blessing. Other times I say, No. And there is no blessing. Just an emptiness where the blessing should have been. I have asked for Holy Spirit Guidance. And I have followed His Direction and have been blessed. Saying No…is not so earth shaking. He wants volunteers who say they will do anything no matter what. Absolute Surrender. He knows I am married. That I have family responsibilities. What I do for Jesus has no value. It has value for the person on the other end. Jonah said No, and look what happened to him.
I suppose I do bad works. Sometimes I do stuff to make myself look good. If we dont tell the other person we are helping them because Jesus directs our path, then how will they know? and how will Jesus and His Father get the credit. Sometimes that isnt important. Like the family that left the donkey for Jesus to ride on Psalm Sunday. They were doing good works. Who ever they were. So, too, we go about our day doing our daily errands, living our lives centered on Jesus and The Holy Spirit and The Word of our Father…
we are doing good works. And thru FAITH…Jesus is alive and well and hanging out with his Father. And His Spirit, The Holy Spirit is with us as we study the word and go about our everyday life. Some say Jesus is here too.
I believe we are in the garden of eden experience. We have the opportunity to walk and talk with Jesus just like Adam and Eve did. Jesus will show up whereever He is invited. If you dont want him around, He wont be there. The same for the Holy Sprit. He wants to be invited into your life. Jesus wants to be invited into your life. Our Father wants to be invited into your life. He is God over everything except…our desire. So when we desire to be with Him, it is the greatest gift we can give Him.
November 20th, 2004 at 9:07 am
Hey, thanks for writing out more of your thoughts, Battrick.
Really, I agree with most of what you say (assuming our words have common meaning).
It’s easier to understand on a human level. It’s just not consistent with the historical record (the New Testament) about Jesus Christ.
I believe God exists in three persons; Father, Jesus, Spirit. I believe in the presence of evil in my own life and my need to remove the guilt that comes along with that. I believe Jesus provided a way to remove that guilt and restore my relationship to the Father.
November 20th, 2004 at 3:53 pm
I would call that response, a “Rob CopOut”.
November 21st, 2004 at 12:12 am
What? You have EVIL in your life? And you have GUILT? Guilt is an Old Testament word. It and its forms are only found forty times in the whole Bible. Seven in The New Testament. Three in Matthew, One in Mark, Romans, First Corinthians and James. You might not be born again. You might still be just a protestant, trying to do good works to get you in the door. And as for evil, maybe you have a hardened heart, or disobedience, or a perfectionist attitude. Maybe you are still trapped beneath sins rules. You know about the bird trying to next in your hair? You cant stop the bird from flying around near you…but you can stop it from nesting in your hair. So where are you with the Holy Spirit? Is he a person or just a force? The Holy Spirit is an extension of Jesus, like Jesus is an extension of His Father. The Holy Spirit is Jesus’s someone. And what about speaking in tongues…It is one of those gifts we get when we get born again. Some say GUILT is manmade. You are known by the words you speak. Why do you carry GUILT around with you? It is something that is supposed to be left at the cross.
November 21st, 2004 at 4:25 am
Some thoughts from Battrick: Its not uncommon to address one own human weakness as evil. As we see it we think it is evil. But it is not. It is our human condition. It is another example of something else we can give to Jesus. Satan isnt involved. It is just out of your own depths. Something you can easily conquer. Just give it to Jesus. It is all part of the growing up process. Some dont grow up in their own eyes. But are adults as far as Jesus is concerned. There probably isnt any evil in your life. That is to say that we share the same meaning for evil. Of Satanic origin….would be my meaning. There is a hedge of protection available to keep out the foxes. Its a prayer thing. Its an intercessory tool. I think your spiritual lighthouse would turn on if you had a more personal relationship with the Holy Spirit. You can ask for a prayer language if you want one. Some people get it immediatly. I got mine at a Marilyn Hicky weekend seminar in phoenix arizona. It was offered and I went and recieved. It is best experienced when I am alone. It sounds like hebrew but not always. It is for intercession. I like singing in my prayer language.
November 22nd, 2004 at 7:57 am
More Thoughts: I have reading and rereading this blog. I have been trying to understand what you have written. It means alot to you that Jesus was God. He has to be one hundred percent God. In a physical form. Right there, logic is my stumbling block. Okay. Your reference to John Five. I read it from the NIV. It clearly says Jesus was talking to the Jews. Not the Gentiles…of which You SquareJer are one. That could be a good reason why you dont understand this passage. Another reason is you side with the Jews and their interpretation and you cast off Jesus’s interpretation of their accusation. 18″For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.” Not once in his rebuttal did Jesus say he was God. That God word is clearly written in my NIV Bible. Jesus didnt say that word once. So I say…this God word that the Jews used was different than Jesus talking about His Father. This section…this chapter goes on for fortyseven verses. Surely you cant take out one segment and hope to understand the whole. How about this one? 37″And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent.” If you are going to believe the earlier part you have to believe this part also…it was written just for you. If you go along with the jews by calling Jesus God…then you are a Jew. And you clearly do not understand what was said in John Chapter Five.
November 22nd, 2004 at 8:10 am
Yes, you are right. I am hung up on my belief that Jesus is God. I can understand that others don’t see it that way, and I can accept that the record isn’t as clearly stated as some would like. That is, Jesus didn’t stop and say, “Hey, Everyone. I’m God.” Nevertheless that’s where I am right now.
November 23rd, 2004 at 2:33 am
I can understand Jesus being 100 percent God. It causes me to wonder about Mary. Did her egg unite with spiritual sperm? Probably not. Jesus was a test tube baby. The Father’s sperm and egg were placed in her womb. Thats why he didnt look like Joseph or Mary. He looked like His Father. Your belief system must be wrapped up in the four spiritual laws. There are alot of GOD words in that delivery. I think they miss the mark. They make a good tool for talking about Jesus. They flip back and forth between present day and the days of the cross. Jesus talking about being born of water and the spirit is a bit beyond the understanding of an unbeliever. Using the example of Jesus knocking and Him speaking to us with His Voice. Surely you make that symbolic in some manner. Have you heard Jesus’s Voice? I have. The Holy Spirit is mentioned briefly. You must believe that the Holy Spirit is one hundred percent God. Does that mean He is approachable? God wants to be our friend. Does it happen thru the Holy Spirit? Or is there any friendship? The friendship happens between other believers I suppose. A christian’s mental/spiritual environment can be so fluid. Give one person the basics and they will see The Father’s Face. Tell them about Jesus and The Cross, it can be enough. It might not matter if the person is in a cult, or living alone in the desert. Or being contained in a prison cell for murdering someone. Jesus can forgive the past. He is all we have now. Once I found the Person of the Holy Spirit my life changed. Everything fit together. If it works, dont fix it. Jesus is here now. That is my message. He is here thru the Holy Spirit. That is my message. He wants to be your friend. He probably looks like He could be a friend of yours. Probably alot of your students dont have any real friends. Jesus and The Holy Spirit want to be their friends. One person reading the Bible can be alone if they dont invite The Holy Spirit to be with them. God wants to be our friend. Thats my message.
November 23rd, 2004 at 10:21 am
Battrick, I appreciate your perspective. While I’m sure both of us are searching for Truth, each of us has spent a considerable amount of time thinking about what that Truth is. I am not currently searching with an open mind either. Rather, I’m listening for things that might indicate I’ve completely missed the boat.
I’m not sure I understand where you are at because the language you are using seems to shift. That may be because I don’t understand the sense in which you use some of your words. I am also sure that I have done a bad job of explaining what I believe. That has certainly created some confusion for you as you try to figure out what I’m saying.
Also, I’m not a good enough writer (or thinker) to summarize the worldview I subscribe to in such a short space as this. This is probably the sort of discussion that lends itself well to getting together occasionally over lunch and having a good argument – all in good spirit.
So if you’re ever in Budapest, drop me an email, and I’ll buy you lunch!