Sure, God is mentioned there, too, but as part of the same being as Jesus. I know a lot of people don’t buy into the concept of the Trinity, and I can understand how it doesn’t fit easily into our human experience. It’s quite a non-linear, non-Western type concept. (That’s pretty ironic, given how much of Western culture is based on a belief in a Triune God.)

So, if Jesus is not the point, then what is?

If finding peace with God is not through Jesus Christ, then how do you propose we find it?

Let me head you off at the pass, though. Before you suggest another system of good works let me tell you I don’t buy that route. If that is, indeed, the way to find peace with God, then I have a lot of self-centered living to catch up on. That is, I have no delusions of my own goodness, and instead I see my own internal corruption. I have no hope if it’s up to my good works. Therefore, I’d rather just give up the doomed effort and at least enjoy the temporary satisfaction of living completely for myself.

Enlighten me.

John 12:49 – For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. :50 – And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

There is no doubt that the way to Our Father is thru Jesus. It is not of works. Tho it is of works…doing his will. A christian sitting on his hands isnt demonstrating the power of Jehovah within him. Works alone doesnt make it. Works designated as His Will…will get you kinship with Jesus.

Jesus speaking about his father is written all thru the gospels…and all thru John’s Gospel. Jesus would not want the honor and glory for himself, for he knows that the honor is meant for his father. Abba…our Daddy!

John 14:13 – And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

John 14:16 – And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

The other comforter is The Holy Spirit. Jesus’s spirit. So, is the New Testament about The Holy Spirit? Some would say yes. I contend the NT is about Our Father. The Great Provider. The one who wants us to be in his family. The Old Testament is about Our Father.

In the beginning, it was clouds in the sky…rumbling thunder…strange lights. Then the burning bush…then the tabernacle…God in a Box. Finally The Creator is born into a human being. And that human being has a one on one personal relationship with his creator Father. The new testament is also called the new covenant. Or the next covenant, or the last covenant. The messiah. Jesus the Messiah. The one who will show us the way to the creator.

Do you want to lead students to The Father? Yes…thru Jesus. If you want new zing in your student witnessing, strike that three letter word GOD from your vocabulary. Dont write it dont say it. If you are at a loss for words, say your father, my father…for HE IS YOUR FATHER. He is not your God/god. You are doing His Will? Yes? then Jesus is your brother and His Father is Your Father.

Matthew 12:50 – For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother, and sister, and mother.”
Mark 3:35 – Whoever does the will of God is my brother, and sister, and mother.”
Luke 8:21 – But he said to them, “My mother and my brothers are those who hear the word of God and do it.”

The word GOD, is generic. It lacks personality. It is undefinable. It is pleasing to everyone’s ear. It is universal. It is catholic. It is a cover word, for those believers who couldnt write the real name of the creator. So it was continued thru translations. The translators couldnt write the name of the creator on paper. They couldnt even say his name out loud. We can because we believe Jesus set us free from church law. He didnt set us free from government law. Just from the unending laws that the church and synagogues devised to keep us on the right road. Jesus reduced them all to one. Love you neighbor as yourself.

The muslims do not believe that their God can be your friend. Their idea of God is one who punishes and judges and causes his servants to fear him…literally be afraid of God. Our definition of fear is respect…as one would respect their father. We christians can go into the same room with Our Father, because He is our DAD!!!! Fathers and sons do stuff together. They have fun together. Joke around. Laugh. Those experiences are included with being a christian.

Yes, it’s true, Jesus used language many times that associated doing good works with those belonging to the kingdom of heaven. If you take individual statements of his and form a belief system around them, you might arrive at the conclusion that good works can achieve peace with God. But if you read the entirety of what he said, you would arrive at a different conclusion. When you do so, other individual comments that Jesus made are more typical of what his message was. For example, “I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.” (John 5:24) Here Jesus says belief is the key ingredient to finding peace with God, not doing good works.

Secondly, Jesus must be of the *same essence* as God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. If not, then all Christian thought reduces to a system of good works and religion. Rather than following God himself in the form of man, we would be following another man. And then the beliefs of the Jehovah’s Witnesses would be a logical conclusion; worship Jehovah, not anyone less. But then that wouldn’t be Christianity, and it would not be consistent at all with what Jesus said about himself. Close, but not really the same at all. Thus the term “cult” is applied to Jehovah’s Witnesses. Muslims respect Jesus as a prophet, but they are certainly not Christian. Neither are Jehovah’s Witnesses. Any group that denies that Jesus is of the *same essense* as God is not Christian, because Jesus claimed he was. Jesus also said, “that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.” (John 5:23)

On the one hand, I wish I could dispatch your arguments neatly in this blog comment. On the other hand, I’m glad I can’t. Life is very complex, and I think God is complex. I am perfectly comfortable believing that our universe contains a being whose nature is beyond my ability to comprehend. People have been thinking about these issues for several thousand years now. Most people who study the life of Jesus Christ conclude that he was either God or a nutcase. Some conclude, as you have, that he was a special person but not God. I don’t think that’s a valid option. Either embrace Jesus or dismiss him entirely. Anything in between doesn’t make sense.

Here are some other articles if you’re interested in reading further.
http://hertzlers.com/jerry-story1.htm – my personal experience with the person of Jesus Christ.
http://www.greatcom.org/resources/jesus_and_his_diety/chap01/default.htm – an online book discussing the diety of Jesus
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060652926/102-1729931-6459341?v=glance – Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis. You can read some of it online here at Amazon.
http://everystudent.com/wires/whodoyousay.html – another article on whether Jesus claimed to be God or not.

Here are the same links, only shorter.

Amazon link to Mere Christianity – http://tinyurl.com/3vsqe

Link to online book at Greatcom.com – http://tinyurl.com/62s6s

The two others looked short enough to fit on the page.

Once I heard someone describe the Bible as a 5 Chapter book.

Chapter 1: “Preparing for Jesus” (the OT)
Chpater 2: “Jesus is Here” (the gospels)
Chapter 3: “Jesus Goes Up, Spirit Comes Down” (Acts)
Chapter 4: “How to Live in Light of Jesus” (Epistles)
Chapter 5: “Jesus Returns” (Revelation)

I still look at the Bible that way.

Battrick, I don’t have Rob’s brevity, so here’s my long reply. (Next time I’ll keep Rob’s style in mind!)

OK. We can discuss the point of the New Testament. It was written about Jesus Christ, no? He had just changed mankind’s perspective on who the Father was, and several people wanted to write about it. He had just made it clear how to establish peace with our Father. It was by believing in him.

Why was Jesus’ life anything special in relation to man’s guilt and our relationship to the Father? Because he provided a way to remove the guilt that separated us from our Father. His death was a substitute for our death. He died both physically and spiritually so we would not die spiritually. He satisfied the justice of our Father.

Could this have been possible if Jesus was solely a man? I don’t know. Maybe the Father, in his wisdom, knows the answer to that question.

Was Jesus solely a man? The answer to this question IS a large part of the whole point of the New Testament. To ignore it is to ignore the point of the New Testament. That’s why I keep coming back to it, because I believe that is the point of the New Testament; the person of Jesus Christ.

Jesus was very clear that he did not believe himself to be merely a man. The Jews understood very clearly that Jesus did not consider himself to be merely a man. That’s why they killed him.

Jesus said in John 5:19, “I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. 20For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, to your amazement he will show him even greater things than these. 21For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.”

How someone could read those words and not conclude that Jesus considered himself God, I don’t know. The Jews certainly arrived at that conclusion. How can someone be shown all that God does without being God? How can someone do all that God does without being God?

The Jews understood him clearly. They said, “he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.” (John 5:18) And they arrived at this conclusion before Jesus had finished talking about the subject at that time!

Why do the Jehovah’s Witnesses say, “Jesus was not of the same essence as the Father”?

And why do Jehovah’s Witnesses say that peace with God is established by doing the “will of the Father” (by which statement they don’t mean faith) when Jesus said, “Believe on me.”?

I disagree with you. The point of the Old Testament and the New Testament is Jesus Christ. On a broader scale, I think it is the story of our Father redeeming his creation through his grace. And that grace is ours through faith in Jesus Christ.

Changing the subject a bit. I am genuinely curious to know what you believe “doing the will of the Father” involves. (I’m not baiting you, don’t worry.) Is there a point at which you have “done” them? Or do you just keep trying until you die and hope for the best? Is there any way to gauge how you’re doing? How do you deal with failure? How do you deal with your ever-present guilt? How is the Father’s sense of justice satisfied with works that the prophets in the Old Testament called “filthy rags?”

He said He was His Father’s Son. He said He looked like his Dad, and his Dad looked like him. Is that so strange??????

Maybe his Dad was a billion times taller, and still had the same facial features. Hair style. No one really knows what he looked like.

Just to let you know…when you are born again. You become a new creature. You are no longer human. You might think you are one percent God and ninetynine percent human. But you are probably one percent human and ninetynine percent God’s Son. You even have a new name. Something I havent figuired out yet. You get a package of gifts when you are born again. One of those gifts is direct access to the Holy Spirit. Its a given. What ever your hearts desire, He will give it to you. Jesus is generally our hearts desire. And Jesus will give you His Father. Know Jesus and you will know His Father.

The New Testament was written about Jesus, by His Father.

Sure several people did good works inorder for that to happen.

People wrote down on “paper” what they remembered, and what
Our Father directed them to write. They made mistakes. They
were only human. Paul was out there doing good works. Never for a moment thinking his letters would end up in the new testament.

Other people got together and arranged the writings into some
kind of order directed by Jesus’s Father.

I believe Jesus spoke the words His Father spoke. Everything Jesus said had already been said milliseconds before by His Father. Well, ninety nine percent. The other part was from his one percent humaness.

The reason he was killed was because of the orchestration of the
Pharisees. And because Jesus’s Father wanted it to happen. Jesus
wasnt always so sure it was the right thing to do. But he pressed
on with his good work. And at the end, even Jesus questioned authority.

His death signified the end of sacrifices for sin. No more would killing a lamb suffice for the shed blood to cover the sins of the past year. The last lamb was killed…Jesus. His blood was shed for everyone. Past Present Future. Sin stopped existing on that day.

Sin is nothing without sacrifice.

If you didnt know about Jesus and His Father’s Grand plan, then
one might think sin could still reigned in ones mind. Believing
that Jesus died for our sin, releases us to live the good life
we know in our heart of hearts is right.

The bible is full of examples of how we can do good works once
we believe Jesus died for us individually and collectively to
set us free from the rules of sin. Love your neighbor as yourself.
Help the afflicted. Help the widow. Love your mother and father.
Give your children good gifts and not stones. Its all about good
works. Bad works are like lying about stuff. Stealing stuff. Its
easy to devide the good from the bad when you have Jesus and the Bible as your standard. You just know in your heart what is right and good and beneficial. Proverbs is full of examples. Jesus set many examples. The Samaritan helped a traveler. Usually helping means extending yourself beyond your comfort zone. And if it makes you angry in the process, you can be sure you are doing a good work. I just hope you realize it, and not stay angry.

“The point of the Old Testament and the New Testament is Jesus Christ. On a broader scale, I think it is the story of our Father redeeming his creation through his grace. And that grace is ours through faith in Jesus Christ.”

What does that mean? Is that evangelical talk? redeeming his creation…what isnt his creation? through his grace? Do your students even know what that means? Faith is believeing in the unbelievable as though it is happening now. Not that it will happen later. but that it has already happened now.

The old testament is about our Father’s many attempts to get our attention, that he loves us and that he wants to give us all our hearts desires.

The new testament is about our Father’s last attempt to get our attention that is loves us and that he wants to give us all our hearts desires.

The Holy Spirit tells me to do things. Sometimes I do them and recieve blessing. Other times I say, No. And there is no blessing. Just an emptiness where the blessing should have been. I have asked for Holy Spirit Guidance. And I have followed His Direction and have been blessed. Saying No…is not so earth shaking. He wants volunteers who say they will do anything no matter what. Absolute Surrender. He knows I am married. That I have family responsibilities. What I do for Jesus has no value. It has value for the person on the other end. Jonah said No, and look what happened to him.

I suppose I do bad works. Sometimes I do stuff to make myself look good. If we dont tell the other person we are helping them because Jesus directs our path, then how will they know? and how will Jesus and His Father get the credit. Sometimes that isnt important. Like the family that left the donkey for Jesus to ride on Psalm Sunday. They were doing good works. Who ever they were. So, too, we go about our day doing our daily errands, living our lives centered on Jesus and The Holy Spirit and The Word of our Father…
we are doing good works. And thru FAITH…Jesus is alive and well and hanging out with his Father. And His Spirit, The Holy Spirit is with us as we study the word and go about our everyday life. Some say Jesus is here too.

I believe we are in the garden of eden experience. We have the opportunity to walk and talk with Jesus just like Adam and Eve did. Jesus will show up whereever He is invited. If you dont want him around, He wont be there. The same for the Holy Sprit. He wants to be invited into your life. Jesus wants to be invited into your life. Our Father wants to be invited into your life. He is God over everything except…our desire. So when we desire to be with Him, it is the greatest gift we can give Him.

Really, I agree with most of what you say (assuming our words have common meaning).
It’s easier to understand on a human level. It’s just not consistent with the historical record (the New Testament) about Jesus Christ.

I believe God exists in three persons; Father, Jesus, Spirit. I believe in the presence of evil in my own life and my need to remove the guilt that comes along with that. I believe Jesus provided a way to remove that guilt and restore my relationship to the Father.